CPTnet
CPTnet
January 22, 1999
A Conversation on Nonviolence
recorded by Joanne "Jake" Kaufman

The father of one of the families with whom CPT works in the Campaign for
Secure Dwellings was a bit down when we went to visit one Saturday. His
family's home has been demolished and the family is struggling to make ends
meet.

One of his first comments when we sat down was, "A father should be willing
to give up his life for his children, no?" Wary of where he was going with
this topic, we nodded hesitantly.

He continued, "Well, then, I should become a terrorist bomber."
Shocked, we asked why. He responded, "When our neighbor was killed by
settlers last spring, the Palestinian political organizations vied to support
his children. They are now going to a good school. But my eldest son must
work instead of going to university, even though he passed the final exams.
My two teen-aged daughters work, and my younger teen-aged son must soon quit
school to work, too. But if I was dead, the community would take care of
them."

"Abu Abed" assured us that he has no intention of becoming a terrorist bomber,
but explained that peace doesn't seem to be working for Palestinians. "With a
'peace agreement' [Wye] 250 of 750 prisoners were released, and you know most
of them were criminals. But when we used violence, the Palestine Liberation
Organization (PLO) exchanged one Israeli soldier for 2300 Palestinian
prisoners. You know it's true that violence gets better results than peace,
but you can't say that [because of CPT's nonviolent philosophy]."

Pierre Shantz responded. "Wye River and Oslo are not peace. For a true peace
agreement you must have equal parties. If negotiations are held where each
has equal power, then they are peaceful. But they aren't if the person in the
middle is tipping the power toward one or another side." The middle person
must be neutral. So in truth, peace has not been tried here."

Abu Abed: "The stronger will impose his conditions on the weaker. But if I
follow your [train of thought], this will encourage Palestinians to use
violence [to gain equality]."

Shantz: "If I fight with a knife, yes. But Gandhi fought the British
nonviolently in an occupation."

Abu Abed: During the long days of occupation before the intifadah, the Israeli
politicians didn't think about Palestinians. It was only after the intifadah
that violence made them consider.

Another international visitor: "But during the intifadah there was organized
nonviolent resistance. There was violence, but people were most of all
refusing to take the oppression any more."

Abu Abed: "Even Camp David only came after violence. {Egyptian president
Anwar] Sadat offered peace only after war. We need to have power."

Shantz: "That's dangerous."

Abu Abed: "I know."

Shantz: "If there is war and Israel leaves Palestine, there will still be
power facing power, war. You will still have no peace."

Abu Abed: "Israel asks for so much, for Palestinians to take less than the
1967 borders. Israel has used violence and gradually gotten the land it has
today. No doubt all the Arab leaders collaborated with the U.S. and Great
Britain. Hitler massacred the Jews, not us, but Balfour promised them land
here. It's not their land. Even though we agreed to Israel on the '67
borders, they still don't agree."

"Palestinians agree to have peace with Israel but not in a way that Israel
still takes our land. Netanyahu took 100 negotiators to Wye; Palestinians
took 15. They negotiated what they do not own. If Israel wants all the land,
it will lose all of it. Palestine is a land full of scorpions that invaders
cannot stay in and no one, even the people here, can keep it. The Romans,
the Ottomans, they came and they went. The same will be for Israel. Even if
they own all kinds of nuclear weapons they will go."

Joanne Kauffman: "[You yourself are implying] then that violence does not
work. They will leave whether or not you use violence."

Abu Abed: "But we must keep working. There are things that God gives people
but it doesn't mean that you sit still."

Shantz: "Exactly there is a third way. Neither fighting violently or
running away. . ."

Abu Abed: "Ah, there are more than three. In my case, doing nothing was doing
something. You are from Canada, and I am from Palestine. If you come as a
friend and ask me for land to build on, even if I know you are not Muslim I
may give [sell] it to you. But if you come and take it by force, I will fight
you for it. It's impossible to talk while Israel occupies us. I can live
with Jews in my house, but not being occupied. But if there is friendship and
love and peace, good things can happen. As the proverb says, 'With good
words, you can do
anything.'"